Clare

Changed Status to Closed Changed Area to General Yes, I guess so. I'd left it open in case any one else had any comments, as for reasons outlined above, it would be much better for anyone who has questions about the guidance to ask me about them now, rather than in the meeting when I potentially can't comment/be in the room. But there has been plenty of time for questions now so I will close.

Thanks for sorting this out @Viv Sounds like you have found a really useful website as well. I agree that that description needs to be changed, but I don't know whether the broker can do anything about it at this stage? I mean, we have bought an insurance policy (I think with Royal Sun Alliance?) and presumably Keegan and Pennykid obtained the quote for us based on whatever info we have historically given them about our activities. We may have to wait to make the change until the end of October when we take out a new policy/renew the existing one with Royal Sun Alliance.

Thanks I suggested to Tim it might be worth speaking to Malcolm, as he would be the one teaching him and probably knows more about these sort of rules than we do with having been a teacher. The main difficulties would probably be with the hotel and going to the pub in the evening (possibly we ought to have parental consent to take him there)

He wouldn't be able to book and stay in the Travelodge on his own; I've just checked the hotel terms and conditions and you can only make a booking if you are 18 or over and will not be permitted to stay alone unless you are 18. https://www.travelodge.co.uk/terms-conditions I think if he comes we would need to do a formal risk assessment and check our insurance policy (I'm getting sick of insurance policies!!) to check that our liability cover doesn't explicitly exclude us being covered for accidents to young people or anything like that. I tried having a quick google and have struggled to turn up anything concrete about young people participating in events/courses (though there is a lot of stuff online about work experience). The most relevant things I found were university policies for having 16-18 year olds on site (eg. http://www.bbk.ac.uk/so/policies/child).

Agreed that we need to employ a professional for something like this, even though the handyman has been really good at the other jobs he's done for us. We really don't want to take a risk with something like water coming through the ceiling! Sounds like you've exhausted all avenues for getting a second quote so happy to go along with the initial one.

What program is the attachment supposed to open in, Viv? I assumed it was Outlook but that's not working for me

In which case I would need to resign before my trusteeship before a job offer is made. I think that in the case where there was a job advertised which you intended to apply for, you should resign before you apply. And if there is a concrete discussion between the trustees about creating a job for which one of the trustees intends to apply, then that trustee (and any trustees connected to them) should be absent from discussions which design the job role, selection process etc, as well as parts of meetings where decisions are made. We need to retain, therefore, that it was members at our AGM who raised this and that we recapped that suggestion at our working weekend, before deciding to investigate further. It wasn't the trustees themselves who had this idea but members. I'll ensure that this is minuted in the AGM minutes. Yes, that is what has happened and that should therefore be minuted. I think if at a future meeting the trustees formally discuss creating the role, you should announce your intention to resign and apply for the role and then leave the room for the duration of the discussion (which should all be minuted). I should that also state that I meet the Charity Commission definition of being a "connected person" to you which also necessitates me being absent from any decisions and discussions, and that too should be minuted. That way it would be clear that the trustees were aware of any dealing with any potential conflicts of interest from an early stage. The difficulty might come further into the process when the trustees want to discuss remuneration and contracts for such a role. Obviously in normal circumstances the participation of the treasurer in such discussions would be desirable. There's probably no reason why I couldn't work with Viv to prepare figures for the trustees illustrating potential payroll costs etc, but there would need to be active participation from the other trustees in understanding and challenging those figures (again, minuted) so that it was clear I wasn't influencing the process for my own financial benefit. Or perhaps someone else with financial knowledge could be involved in the process. We'll have to place an advertisement in Update or LBE inviting offers. I think we would need to consider whether that was sufficient, ie. is only advertising to our (small) member base sufficient publicity for the job. Should something be put in a local newspaper or on the website? Obviously the fact that any such role needs to be fulfilled by a fluent speaker of Esperanto limits the pool of candidates somewhat, but I think we would need to demonstrate that the role was advertised widely. The trustees would also need to make decisions in advance about how people should apply (eg. application forms, CVs, in which language...), the criteria on which they are going to judge those applications (which should be clearly documented), including how candidates would be selected for interview etc. So we do need CC approval after all? As long as we can demonstrate all of the above and keep you away from anything to do with drawing up the job spec, advert and appointing, I should think we'll be in the clear. I have experimented a bit with the Charity Commission form to see how it reacts to different scenarios. If you say that you want to employee a trustee, the first question it asks is whether that trustee resigned before being offered a job. If you answer "yes", it asks you whether the following conditions have been met: The trustee had no involvement in creating the paid positionThe trustee had no involvement with devising the recruitment process or advertising or with setting the terms and conditions of the paid positionThe trustee did not lobby or canvass for the post or otherwise identify themselves to the remaining trustees as the most suitable candidateThe proposed appointment taken together with other payments already being made to trustees will not result in half or more than half of the trustees receiving benefits of any kind from the charity.If you can truthfully answer "yes" to all those questions, it informs you that the trustees need to be satisfied of the following: the proposed employment is in the interests of the charity and there is an advantage to the charity in making the payment that will outweigh any disadvantages it is in the interests of the charity to pay the person named rather than someone unconnected with the charity the trustee to be employed (or connected trustee) has played no part in any discussion or decision regarding the employment the potential conflict of interest will be managed and the trustee to be employed (or connected trustee) will not be privy to any discussion or decision about any aspect of the terms of the employment you can comply with the terms of the trustee payment clauseIf the trustees are satisfied that those conditions have been met, it tells you that you don't need authority, but that you should save a copy of this form for your records. So in short, if the process is arranged such that all those conditions are met, someone would just need to go through that form exercise on the Charity Commission website and save a copy of the results. However if it was specifically you who was applying for the job, then we would need to submit a further form to apply for permission to employ someone who is connected to a trustee. Well, assuming that a replacement treasurer hasn't been found to enable me to resign! The form asks you to confirm the person is connected to a trustee and then asks if the same four bullet points from the previous form are satisfied, except this time you have to confirm that the connected trustee had no involvement in the decision etc. This seems to be a more serious issue, however, because whether you answer "yes" or "no" you have to fill in further information. The form wants to know: Name of the person to be employedName of the connected trusteeNature of the connectionAmount of paymentWhen the arrangement will start and finishThe role for which payment will be madeWhy the trustees consider the level of payment is reasonable in relation to the proposed employmentWhy the trustees consider the payments to be in the best interests of the charityHow conflicts of interest will be managedDetails of any open and fair competitionA copy of the charity's latest accountsYou then submit the form for the Charity Commission's consideration. Not sure what happens then as have obviously only been playing around with the form and don't want to actually submit one

I've spent an hour on the Charity Commission website this morning and established the following. There are some circumstances in which a trustee can become an employee of their charity.If the decision to recruit them is made while they are still a trustee, Charity Commission approval must be obtained.This includes situations where the job offer is made while a person is a trustee, even if they then resign, and also situations where the person resigned as a trustee before a formal job offer was made and took part in an open recruitment process, but played a major part in the trustees' decision to create the post or in devising the recruitment process.Without Charity Commission approval, there could be a liability for the employee-trustee to repay their earnings or for the trustees who authorised the appointment to reimburse the charity.There is a simple form on the Charity Commission website which can be filled in to obtain permission.The trustees need to be clear that employing the person is in the best interests of the charity and that the person has not gained any advantage in securing the post by virtue of being a trustee.Therefore they need to be able to show that there was an open and transparent selection process.If the person has not resigned and intends to continue as a trustee, it needs to be clear why this is necessary and what arrangements are in place for managing any conflict of interest.Note that if a partner or spouse of an existing trustee becomes a paid employee of the charity then Charity Commission approval also needs to be obtained if there is financial interdependence between the two parties.You can read about the rules in more detail here. The form to apply for Charity Commission approval is here

Agree that we should get a second quote, but in principle in favour of the multipanel option even if it's initially more expensive than re-tiling, because sounds like it could save problems in the long-term.

I have to say I still really don't like it But I agree that given the proximity of the date we just need to get promoting it now.

It would be better for the charity to have an independent solution anyway, rather than being dependent on any one individual and their house. Hoping some of the other quotes come back a bit cheaper!

Wow, that's a lot more expensive than I imagined!!